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Far Cough 8:12 Thu Jan 11
This Post Office / Horizon thing

What a load of fucking scumbags the higher ups at the Post Office are.

I mean if more than 50 sub postmasters say there's something wrong with the system, you'd take a deep look at it wouldn't you?

At least Nijinsky has handed her CBE back then.

Cunts

mashed in maryland 11:20 Tue Jan 23
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Cheezey Bell-End 4:44 Wed Jan 17

The Post Office was still part ot Royal Mail until 2012.

Crozier ran it from 2003-2010

This is all documented, there are multiple articles from all across the spectrum detailing the fact it happened on his watch if you just google his name.

Kaiser Zoso 9:58 Fri Jan 19
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Watched a few bits yesterday, that went like this

Is that your writing on this form

No

*goes to end of form, where it is signed

Is that your signature on the end of the form?

Yes

So it is your writing on the form?

I don’t remember writing it

nychammer 4:07 Thu Jan 18
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

and yes i need to watch this Post Office thing!

nychammer 4:06 Thu Jan 18
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Mainframes still serve a purpose. they can handle volume like nothing else. We tried to replace an application that has to process high volumes overnight with some fancy expensive software from a house that shall remain anonymous, and the whole thing went tits up, a very expensive mistake. Ended up replacing the front end but the back end was kept as mainframe / cobol

Kaiser Zoso 9:54 Wed Jan 17
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Yes, Soldo

zebthecat 9:54 Wed Jan 17
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

When I worked in merchant backng the main applications all ran on HP OpenVMS mainframes and they were absolutely rock-solid. It was certainly a change for me having primarily done web stuff before in Java. The code base were a mix of C++ (which I learned pretty quickly) and Perl (which did my nut in) and a fair portion of the code dated back to the mid 80s. The scheduled jobs were VAX com scripts which I remembered from school.
Yeah it was pretty old hat by then but absolutely bombproof as you could retrieve any file version for years back from the attached tape storage. It took up to an hour but it was pretty impressive. The place I worked for had 20-odd mainframes clustered in three locations.
As for Horizon I'd go for a bug whereby the code on the POS terminal thinks a payment has failed when it hasn't so retries until it apparently succeeds. There are any number of reasons why this could happen: bad code, network outages, botched clustering failover etc. It is obvious that the auditors/prosecuters in the PO were convinced that the data they had was the truth when it wasn't and never bothered to look further.

Northern Sold 8:33 Wed Jan 17
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Swiss..... yup may be 50 years old but it still runs and maintains half the world...

In a Q4 2020 update on mainframe usage, IBM shared the following statistics on mainframe adoption:

67 of the Fortune 100;
45 of the top 50 Banks;
8 of the top 10 Insurers;
8 of the top 10 Telcos;
7 of the top 10 Retailers;
4 of the top 5 Airlines;
use the mainframe.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/inside-why-the-mainframe-is-alive-and-thriving/


So Swiss.... when you draw out your £50k from the ATM to pay for your £50k a night top class cock and balls Tranny brass its probably good old Cobol chugging along in the background that is allowing you nuts deep with a good old fashioned reach around... not SQL... you can BOTH thank me later... oh and by the way... SQL first reared its shit head in 1974... yeah 50 years old you fucking div.

Swiss. 5:46 Wed Jan 17
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

It’s all about testing. No system goes into Prod without UAT. That’s the users sign-off. Obviously this wasn’t done properly and/or extensively enough. Also they were probably pressurised to sign it off.

SAP is a nightmare as you have to follow its business processes. Oracle cloud or Workday would be better.

The Swiss will want double or triple his normal 6 figure salary to work in that though

Swiss. 5:38 Wed Jan 17
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Select field.name ‘WANKER’ from sysadm.NORTHERN_SOLD.TBL where FLAG = ‘Y’ :

Ah but Soldo doesn’t know SQL only COBOL which is 50 years old.

Cheezey Bell-End 4:44 Wed Jan 17
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

mashed in maryland Mon Jan 15
When was that? Post Office was separated to become Post Office Counters Ltd in 1987.

Manuel 4:25 Wed Jan 17
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Finished it, was a bit bored by the end tbh. Crazy to think the whole episode dragged for 20 years and is still going, as sad as it was for some, I didn't find myself OUTRAGED by it.

mashed in maryland 10:20 Mon Jan 15
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Lee Trundle 11:19 Mon Jan 15

The Post Office was still part of Royal Mail when he was in charge.

charleyfarley 5:18 Mon Jan 15
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Soldo become a TWAT
i'm sure it will suit you geting fri,sat,sun & monday off

Northern Sold 4:56 Mon Jan 15
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Trunds... I got offered PT contractor work by the same area I worked in... this was 6 weeks after I got VR ... I think i'd rather starve than...

a. Having to rub mates noses in it that did not get the deal I got and then come back on £100 per hour rates.

b. Having to go back to that shit hole with that new fucking shit system.

So more than happy doing 8-10 hours a week bit of gardening on the side with my sanity intact.


Oh couple of blokes I knew went back on contractors rates that got VR... they will be staying well away from me in the near future.

Lee Trundle 4:47 Mon Jan 15
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

You should claim for it, Sold0.

That's typical of the civil service. Get rid of knowledgeable, experienced staff, and then take exactly the same people on as consultants on more expensive wages.

Northern Sold 4:40 Mon Jan 15
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Oh and get this ... I got called out by our ops team for the system-suite that I used to look after for 25 years... not sure they believed me that I had taken VR 8 months earlier... I asked my old boss whether I could claim for it!!

Northern Sold 4:32 Mon Jan 15
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

charley... well it still kind of is.... the stuff that SAP cant deal with... which is shit loads... so basically tax payers pay Futitsu for all the shit that SAP cant deal with ... and tax payers pay for SAP to fuck up what Cobol/Mainframe used to do perfectly... all meant to have been done and dusted yonks ago... however usual predicted fucking mess... that the tax payer is picking up... so so so so glad out of that fucking mess.... no more 1000 yard stare

charleyfarley 3:46 Mon Jan 15
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Soldo I thought you and your tax department were still using COBOL

Lee Trundle 3:33 Mon Jan 15
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

https://blogs.sap.com/2021/01/29/deal-done%e2%80%afhow-sap-helps-you-prepare-for-brexit/

northbankboy68 3:32 Mon Jan 15
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

Always gave SAP a wide berth. Most inflexible system ever when it comes to asset divestment - like unmixing paint.

Mike Oxsaw 2:09 Mon Jan 15
Re: This Post Office / Horizon thing

I was at a point a decade or two ago where I had to decide which way to take my career; the choices were telecom or SAP. I chose telecom but since that moment often wondered if SAP, financially, would have been a better choice; never, ever met a poor (or out of work) SAP engineer.

Anyhow, agree with the sentiments on here - the whole management chains of both the Post Office & Fujitzu, plus all the auditors involved need to be brought and held to account here.

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